Anyone seen this...?

[sevenofninecelica]

Damn those prices seem alot, can't you get custom from the USA:- Mahle pistons - Crower rods - darton sleeves - supertech valves - eiback springs etc etc (spelling), custom CAT cams etc.

[jam]

I can use other manufacturers if that is what the customer wants, but people generally want go with names they recognise and who have a well proven track record within the field they want. The other problem with sourcing from the states is warranty claims take a lot longer to resolve, it is often easier and faster to use the UK importer of the parts, yes it costs more but any items supplied incorrectly or faulty are dealt with quickly and easily.
Kibblewhite valves are cheaper than buying stock Yamaha valves, fitting 2.5mm oversize valves means replacing the valve seats as well as the valves themselves, this alone is around £30 per seat multiplied by 16 of course, the head has to be further modified to gain clearance to run the Megacycle camshafts, all this has to be done prior to gasflowing and porting. The people I use for these services are the best in the business. The guys I use for my crank balancing work are balancing the wheels on the new car for the 1000mph landspeed record attempt, they hve the equipment to dynamically balance crankshafts upto V16.
Liners aren't particularly expensive, but billet cylinder blocks require a lot of machining to fabricate them which adds to the cost, a cast big block would have been cheaper but not as resiliant to the stresses placed upon it from the 86mm pistons, the block has also to be piano wired to enable use of copper head gaskets.
the Carrillo H beam rods retail at £998 in the UK, but to have a custom made billet stroked crankshaft fabricated costs upto £3500 depending on specification.
When building a motor like this it is expensive, but you can't cut corners or skimp on things, making an XJR motor churn out the kind of power that this thing is capable of without bolting a turbo on is a huge undertaking, it would have been cheaper to bolt a turbo on the side and reach 250bhp easily, but that is not what the customer wanted at the time. An XJR turbo would easily hit 250bhp at the wheel and this particular bike was turbocharged in a previous incarnation but XJRs don't tend to last long and have a nasty habit of ripping the studs from the crankcases even when they've been uprated with larger APE H/D items.

This motor is effectively a full drag spec motor being used on the road, the customer knows the pitfalls of this and accepts them, he will also be taking it out on the strip where it should run in the mid 8s, the frame has been extensively braced and wears a Spondon extended arm with built in oil catch tank and airshifter tanks which take the wheelbase to a maximum of 68inches making it SuperStreetBike legal for racing.

[sevenofninecelica]

Probably a silly question what ECU do you use full replacement or one of those piggy back types??.. could you wire up knock sensors / wideband etc with limts set to prevent detination ?. When working with such heavy modded bike engines do you ever get problems with oil starvation or cooling problems, how do you deal with those two issues, or is it a case of bigger rad, and coolers rather can going methinal injection or spraying to super cool etc.

[jam]

XJR is carbs so it's just a simple relacement of the original ignition system with a new unit from dynatek in the US. Until you get into the realms of super high horsepower of 500+ the stock injection system with a power commander will usually surfice. Often the actual injectors will be exchanged for some larger ones. Even an old draw though turbo system can be good for almost 500bhp. As long as the motor is put together correctly and run on the correct fuel for the application there shouldn't be a problem. Modern injection systems are pretty good these days, and will be fine with the extra fueling demands taken care of with a PC and larger injectors, or in somecases a bank of 4 extra injectors. There are several upgrade management systems available such as the Motec unit which is one of the most popular. The stock Busa ECU is able to be hacked into and relatively remapped easily.
Thebig problem with bike injection was the ability to cope with high rpms, but the new PC5 and Wiseco fueling modules are now capable of running a self map. Some stuff is getting towards a complete closed loop system, but on most stock systems the lambda sensor is a narrow band item which willl only correct within very shallow parameters. There are some aftermarket ECUs on the market that use a Bosch LSU4 wideband lambda sensor, which is the same unit as used by Dynojet in their WinPEP7 A/F monitoring, and also on the Dynojet Wideband and PC5. My A/F module on the hardware stack for my dyno which runs the latest WinPEP7 software uses the Bosch wideband sensor which has it's own heating element to maintain optimum operational temperature. It will read from as rich as 10 to 1 A/F upto 18 to 1 A/F lean condition.
Interestingly some of the guys running the old GPZ750 Turbos are using PC3 and PC5 wired onto their stock ECU, even though Dynojet do not list one specific for the model. the only major changes needed are a switch to high impedence injectors, and running the TPS signal into the boost sensor. Some of the guys are getting over 250bhp from the 810 bigbore version of the motor and one in particular has hit speeds of 211mph. Turbos have been swapped from the stock itachi unit for Grrett T25/T28 items.
Carbs can be used in blow through application relatively easily, The advantage of CV carbs in blow through usage is the ability to run almost standard jetting as long as the float bowls are referenced with boost pressure, via pitot tubes which equalises the pressure within the float bowls and venturi, and in some cases the mainjet can be reduced a size.

[jam]

The oilcooled GSXR/Bandit motors can take turbocharging very well, Stock 34mmCV carbs from the 1052cc version work very well, some of the smaller motors have been blown, Pete Ford of Blackdragon motorcycles in Yeovil successfully ran a supercharged 600 Bandit for several years, last time it was on my dyno it produced over 145bhp and almost 200 with the gas. All this from a stock motor with no internal modifications. Running an Opcon supercharger and an old SU carb supplying BioEthanol E85. The advantage of E85 is the fact that it likes a high compression ratio, so low comp pistons are not needed, jetting increases are very similar to Methanol a are the timing alterations, the fuel also cools better than petrol does so helps fight against detonation. Even normally aspirated motors running E85 will see around 15 to 20%more power with a similar percentage loss in fuel economy. The main problem with E85 is it's general lack of availability at the moment although once supply is more widespread I'll be using it.
As with any motor you can gain huge horsepowers if the correct parts are used, materials technology has improved phenominally over the last 10 to 15 years which results in tighter tolerances and greater reliability than before. it will be interesting to see how much further petrol powered bike engines can go, already power has increased to over 720bhp, if E85 was used instead then you could see power levels approaching 1000bhp in road legal machines (ish)

Electronics packages have improved massively in recent years and this combined with the improvement in materials and components is leading the chase towards 1000bhp, but when you think of the money involved in chasing these targets you could buy a house, and in some areas of the country a whole street.

[sevenofninecelica]

^^^^ Certainly has been an eye opener reading that very inoformative too , so what else could be done, or has anyone tried to slide line away and go into rotary engines, problem with that is size and weight + the eggyoke mation and tips wearing.
Buell did come up with a fantastic idea to put the fuel in the frame....... actually talking of which slightly off typic fuel return systems not really necessarliy in bikes are they due to the gravity tanks????, well unless you use foreced electric fuel pumps say walbro 255LPH, then I guess 650cc + injectors could be used. Just interests me as to the posibilites with future designs... How do you see it still the future conventunal stroke or something different to come.

[jam]

Fuel return systems make more sense than dead heading, as the system of pressure regulation is more accurate and reliable. On carb fed turbo systems fuel return is vital for running higher boost figures, as a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator supplying fuel at a couple of psi above boost pressure will buggger up a set of carbs in no time. Higher fuel pressures will easily overcome the ability of the float to seal the supply to the bowl, most blow through carb set ups run slightly lower fuel levels in the float bowls as dynamic boost compensation will supply enough fuel even with a slightly lower fuel level.
I don't forsee any major changes to current piston powered engines, however I do see alternative fuel sources becoming more widspread. BioEthanol E85 is becoming more widely available and once it's available easily and extensively then I'll be converting stuff to use it. High compression ratios of 15 to 1 and above can be used, jetting/fueling increases of around 40% and changes to the ignition timing will typically gain around 15 to 20% above that which could be attained using petrol in the same spec of motor. So something like a 2000 R6 running on carbs which currently produces around 100bhp with a pipe/filter and jet kit set up on a dyno will gain around 15 bhp or so simply from changing over to E85, although the major part of this gain is from the hike in compression ratio needed to run the E85. Fuel systems need altering slightly to run E85 as some rubber parts are affected by the fuel so O' rings etc hoses may need changing, and in some cases the fuel pump may need looking at depending on type and construction.
Materials technology will continue to improve which will mean some designs that have not been possible to use will become more feasible. The Norton rotary was a non starter until the advent of Nickle silicon plating made it possible to seal the rotor tips better than cast iron tips which were brittle and failed often. Newer lighter materials will reduce the amount of power lost internally which obviously gets more power to the wheel. The biggest losses within any motor are caused by driving the valvegear, reduce the weight of the valves and the strength of the springs and lower the rotational mass of the camshafts and you'll get more power to the back wheel. That's where I see some big changes over the next few years.

[billinom8s]

erm, wasn't this thread about someone getting their bike in a mag?

can we keep it on course or start another thread please.

fanks

[Maver-Nick]

erm, wasn't this thread about someone getting their bike in a mag?

can we keep it on course or start another thread please.

fanks

At least it's still about bikes for a change and not turned into a 'Billinom8s, Bambam, Funky, Dynamight' slagfest...

[badgerKDD]

I have to admit I like the Hornet piccys, the Ohlins gas res is interestingly positioned, shows thought for originality. I agree with Jam on the overuse of the Streetfighter moniker these days as well, does seem every Bandit I see has a twin headlight conversion, Renthals with crossbrace and tail tidy, some do it justice, while others look ill thought out and totally un original. That's why I'm going down the cafe racer route with my Bandit, modernising a classic look but trying to add my own stamp on it.

But to balance this out I'v seen some really mouth wateringly well done race rep Gsx-r's, R1's and CBR's etc.

Horses for courses really !

[arron24]

These are the sort of bikes that get ridden hard rather than getting cleaned and looked at all the time.
They get ridden in jeans, Doc Martens and leather jackets, rather than the latest power ranger outfit. [Censored] same.

but which will prove to be the more effective during an 'off' i will take the power ranger suit thanks

.......oh yes the bike is ok too

[jam]

These are the sort of bikes that get ridden hard rather than getting cleaned and looked at all the time.
They get ridden in jeans, Doc Martens and leather jackets, rather than the latest power ranger outfit. [Censored] same.

but which will prove to be the more effective during an 'off' i will take the power ranger suit thanks

.......oh yes the bike is ok too

It doean't matter about how protective clothing is, it is about personal freedom of choice. I ride in leathers but I also ride in jeans and DMs and leather jacket. BUT it is my personal choice what I do, I accept the risks and make my choice, rather than blindly following the pack.

[arron24]

at the end of the day we have all done the shorts and t-shirt trip down to the shop and i wouldnt wish anyone to crash....it is however gonna happen at some point and it is my preference to ride in the best gear possible, yes they are stupidly hot during the summer but i would sooner 'follow the pack' and wear my scars on my leathers as oppose to my lily white ass ....ya makes ya choice

[jam]

I've crashed in both leathers and in jeans, both involved me writing a car off with a bike, ironically I sustained more injuries in leathers (18 fractures)than in jeans (3 fractures). I'll continue to ride in whatever I feel like riding in. Compulsion is a terrible thing, life is about freedom of choice and riding a bike more so. We are all aware of the risks involved when we bin it, but we choose to do it. I'm well aware of the potential consequences of riding in jeans and jacket as oppose to full leathers, and I'm happy to accept the risks.

[billinom8s]

I've crashed in both leathers and in jeans, both involved me writing a car off with a bike, ironically I sustained more injuries in leathers (18 fractures)than in jeans (3 fractures). I'll continue to ride in whatever I feel like riding in. Compulsion is a terrible thing, life is about freedom of choice and riding a bike more so. We are all aware of the risks involved when we bin it, but we choose to do it. I'm well aware of the potential consequences of riding in jeans and jacket as oppose to full leathers, and I'm happy to accept the risks.

hear hear.

i was told a long time ago that in the event of a big of, the leathers will keep all the bits together and the skin on, they may not all be connected the way god intended them and there may be a few more pieces but in the end, thats pretty much what they do.
i have done the jeans, DM/para boot thing and have to admit i felt fine riding along.

personal choice it is. enjoy it while we still have it.